T'eyla Minh (teylaminh) wrote,
T'eyla Minh

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The Epic Jonathan Creek Fandom Discussion.

Okay, finally getting around to posting this... (Oh, also: I've finally set up Semagic to cross-post to DW automatically when I post here, as I kept forgetting and had repeatedly imported my old LJ entries to DW, thus ending up with older entries 3 or 4 times. I've deleted it all and started again, with cross-posting now happening by default...)

To explain: I'm working on a post-Easter Special angstfic for Jonathan Creek, the first draft of which I sent to commoncomitatus, typos and all. Following that, we somehow ended up having the Epicest Jonathan Creek Fandom Discussion of All Time, which now deserves to be noted on LJ along with all the in-depth episode write-ups.

My initial plan was to finish the story first so I could post the emails in their entirety, in context... but instead I'll go from a point that makes somewhat more sense outside of the context of the fic. Unfortunately I still have to explain the basic concept of the story, which is basically that Jonathan leaves Maddy the windmill, by sending her the keys through the post (to America) - on her arrival she meets Joey, who is acting as Jonathan's go-between, and who hands Maddy a letter from Jonathan in which he explains that the windmill is hers. I've written it in a slightly experimental style so that (hopefully) the reader doesn't realise that it's Maddy at the windmill until the point of the letter, as only Joey is mentioned by name. :)

That being said, here is the Fandom Discussion - all typos as per the original emails, including one particularly spectacularly hilarious one from Eni. The only additions / amendments are to put in words that were missing, just so it's a bit easier to read. The first few emails are snipped to take out some irrelevant / nonsense bits, and there are also some spoilers for the Doomfic and/or my ALTAF-verse, but probably nothing more than I've already mentioned on LJ elsewhere. I've also colour-coded: mine are purple, Eni's are green.




(Just to set the scene...)


I couldn't imagine Jonathan selling it to strangers and I get the impression his immediate family is quite small - no nieces, nephews, etc. - so there's nobody else to hand it down to. And I also can't imagine Joey wanting that sort of responsibility - not to mention I don't think they've known each other long enough for Jonathan to consider her at all in that regard.

Ugh, I just had to get that particular bit of fail out of my head. The Judas Tree is my headcanon end point now simply because there's no way I can work with Savant's Thumb without wanting to throw things - it's like Crooked Lane to the power of infinity. :(

Dammit, if Renwick will not give us a Maddy!mention I will do it myself.



But yea, I think it just fits that he'd give it to her, and the more I think about it the more the idea grows into inaudible flail. I mean, notwithstanding where they end up, she's the whole reason he became, y'know, ~Jonathan Creek~. Even if they have both kind of moved on canonically from where they were at that point, it's still symbolic, and she's as much a driving force in his identity until Wifey came along as the windmill is, if slightly shorter-lived. But I really don't think the idea would be lost on Jonathan to have both of those symbols in the same place.

I'm glad that was effective - that was about the third re-write. Jonathan's speaking voice is easy, but I was struggling to imagine what his 'written' voice would be like, especially given (in this universe, headcanon notwithstanding) they haven't been in contact for several years. He'd be trying to keep it light in case Polly found it, hoping Maddy realises how important it is at the same time.

Part of me wants to think Polly knows about Maddy and her significance in Jonathan's previous life - and thus the significance of the windmill, which would give some logic to his having to abandon it - but another part of me doesn't want to think about Polly at all. Catch-22. :P

Yea, TBH, I think the hardest part of writing any kind of Jonathan voice in the universe as it stands is that he doesn't really feel like ~Jonathan any more. So his voice isn't really his. Like you said, the whole juggling of what Polly will think versus what he wants to say to the person he's saying it to.

I'm really conflicted on the does-Polly-know-about-Maddy thing, because I kind of think if they have any kind of relationship worth having, she would kind of have to -- Jonathan isn't really any more good at keeping secrets than he is at explaining himself, most of the time, and there's the whole concept of, y'know, sharing the parts of you that are important with the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. But at the same time, I think, if I had to think about it at all, I've got this kind of quiet headcanon where, after she clearly failed to comprehend even the most basic level of how much the windmill might have meant to him, Jonathan might have just given up on the concept of communication entirely. Just sort of kept his head down and let himself be swept around in the tornado that is Polly and all her big plans to save him from himself. Like maybe he reached a point, around the time she showed up in his life, where he just didn't have the strength to even try and fight for his identity any more.


I sort of wanted the letter to be a reminder that where Maddy is concerned, Jonathan is still the same old Jonathan. It seems that Joey dragging him along on another Impossible Mystery would be enough of a catalyst to make him reassess the path he's chosen (or been pulled along, as the case may be) and revisit all those things which he'd hoped to leave in the past - so even though he's been forced to abandon the windmill, he still wants it to fall into the right hands. So even though he's too much of a coward to actually approach Maddy himself, and has to do all the fine details via Joey, it's still an acknowledgement of where they've been and where they came from. (Again, headcanon notwithstanding.)

Your second paragraph = basically YES. To everything, but especially that latter part about Polly just not comprehending the windmill or its significance, and Jonathan giving up. Because that is most definitely the sense I got from all of his "married life" scenes, that he simply gave up and let someone else run his life for him. In essence he kind of did that with Maddy anyway just because of the sheer force of her personality, at least to begin with, before they managed to find a solid footing of communication / friendship / whatever. Then, after much the same experience with Carla and latterly Joey, it sort of makes sense that he would be drawn back to that type of overwhelming/overbearing personality. As much as this whole Polly thing has BROKEN MY BRAIN, I would really have appreciated some kind of fricking back story anyway, just to make bloody sense of it somehow. Where did they meet? How? Most importantly, WHY? These are pressing questions, Renwick!!

Grr. Yeah. I think this adequately demonstrates why we have so much headcanon for this series. :P


Yessssss, I loved the whole 'too much of a coward to actually approach her' part -- that last line in the letter BROKE me. That's one of my favourite things about your J/M fic, how, even though they struggle to communicate, there's still that underlying sense of knowing each other too well to try and hide their basic weaknesses. He knows she'd call him out on it, so he preempts her by saying the words himself.

And a big yes to backstory. I'm not entirely opposed to New Love Interests, even ship-sinking ones, provided there's some actual, y'know, BASIS. And if there's not enough time in an hour and a half to give the woman a little backstory, at least find ten seconds to flesh out their relationship before this point. Just SOMETHING, y'know, so we can get some basic comprehension of how this complete and utter turnabout came into existence. It's like, yes Renwick, we get it, he's All Grown Up now and Settled Down and Married and whatever else, but HOW DID HE GET THERE?!?!

I never really thought about him gravitating to that kind of personality, but now I do, you're totally right. Maddy has a lot to answer for! (*rimshot*)

Hee. I think I may be slightly hung up on this whole "twelve years since series 3" thing. :) It just... feels like it ought to be acknowledged, y'know?

As for 'pre-empting' - don't get me started. I have quite a massive rant on that subject forthcoming when the rewatch hits "Satan's Chimney", as five million years later I realise what Renwick may have been trying to imply and GRRRR SO MUGH RAGE. For risk of spoilers, that's all I shall say here. :P (At this point I find out the entire fandom figured it out before me. :P)

Yes yes yes backstory. You cannot simply produce a character about-face like that out of thin air, three years after being on familiar ground. Someone point[ed] out somewhere on Tumblr that in fact, that's the very worst thing you can do - for people who watch the show WITHOUT fandomic interest but are regular viewers nonetheless, when you come back to something three years later it should seem familiar. Part of me thinks Renwick was trying, in his own subtle way, to retire the character because he didn't think there'd be any more episodes to write, only for the BBC to demand three more scripts. And I've had this conversation with someone else, and seen it mentioned elsewhere: if Renwick is running out of steam then he should introduce new blood, even if it's just to get the FRELLING CHARACTERS back to something recognisable. By all means we can leave him to his own devices with regards Impossible Mysteries (although even that was poor by previous standards), but he's never demonstrated any care or caution about writing his own characters, even when scripts were occurring regularly...

It would be just like Jonathan to deny / not realise his tendencies in that regard, too. :D It would probably take someone like Adam (or Joey) pointing it out before he twigged.

Y'know... there's a part of me that's kind of quietly hoping the three new episodes will be flashback types to fill in the massive gaps between Judas Tree and where we are now. But then, it's pretty obvious that the whole point of whatever happened in that time was to stop Jonathan being Jonathan, so I don't know how they can do that and still retain even the tiniest shred of what the show actually is.

...plus it would mean more Polly, which I'm kind of torn about because on the one hand I need that damn backstory, but on the other, I really don't want any more of her than is absolutely critical.

Basically, yea, Renwick has written himself into a corner with the character. We want to know more about how he came to be what he is now, but at the same time, we've lost all investment in the character BECAUSE of what he's become. So he's kind of spent all this time sharpening a sword only to trip over and fall on it himself. It's really hard to want anything from the new Jonathan but at the same time we want justice for the old one.

A giant 'YES' on Jonathan needing to be told about his tendencies, though. I have this lovely image now of a scene in the pub with Joey, fairly early into their partnership, where he's had a few and is slightly more open than usual, and telling her about how he got into the business and Maddy and then Carla etc etc etc, and then Joey just blurts out "oh my god, you have a TYPE", and he just kind of sits there like "...who in the whut now?"

Ditto, re: the flashbacks. Or even, as cloudsinvenice suggested (and was anticipating in the episode), some kind of scene where Jonathan sits Joey down and explains everything. Her quiet acceptance of the situation just made it worse; I think our headcanon of their relationship is more thorough than the reality, at this point...

You never know; Sarah Alexander might unexpectedly pull out of the next three episodes and Renwick can have yet another tantrum and make her miraculously disappear. :P

Your third paragraph about sums it up, I think: there's enough love left for the OLD Jonathan, the one we've all come to know and love, to justify being a tiny bit excited about the prospect of three new episodes, but at the same time I'm really worried - as ever - that Renwick has basically stopped caring. He's so awful for projecting his feelings onto Jonathan that I suspect we will be sorely disappointed. :(

HEE!!! That would be very amusing. I might try and write it into the Doomfic - 'twould have to go post-wheedling, but before Joey starts emailing Maddy, so she can get the measure of his history with Carla first. Now that I think about it some more, it's really bloody obvious - remember Charlotte Carney?! Maybe it's a facet of his own ridigly structured lifestyle that he's unconsciously craving an opposite, which he subsequently finds in highly-strung / borderline hysterical females. :D

Ugh, seriously. Shall we just forward this entire email chain to David Renwick C/O BBC? Or maybe paint it on a brick and beat him with it.

Now you've mentioned it, there is definite fodder for some kind of filler type fic wherein Jonathan DOES sit Joey down and explain everything, thus lending itself to her quiet acceptance. Probably something along the lines of "well, clearly I'm not going to be able to change your mind or make you see that this is a really dumb move, so I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut".

But yes, this is the problem I have with Renwick, not unlike the same problem I have with Russell T Davies -- so bloody fickle, and too busy projecting their own feelings and fantasies onto their characters that said characters end up becoming butchered parodies of themselves. A little consistency, it's all we want!

Yay doomfic! And you know it would make sense in context anyway, because there's no way Joey would be satisfied with knowing about Maddy and not feel the need to pry into what came next... and, as we know, Jonathan is a complete wet blanket when it comes to being wheedled, so we know he'd break down in practically no time and confess at least some of Carlagate...

The fact that Joey was unaware was the part which boggled me, I will admit. As I say, I think I'd built up the Jonathan/Joey relationship in my head to be something bigger than it actually was, and certainly bigger than Renwick apparently saw it. Because if they were in contact pre-Polly I can see her trying to talk sense into him before he ran head-first into a mid-life crisis. I mean, notwithstanding that he's running around solving impossible crimes with a young blonde thing young enough to be his daughter. :P There is an element of the Trophy Wife about Polly despite her obvious tendencies towards wanting to run his life for him, which is a path I never expected he would go down... He's not defined by anyone other than himself, or so I would have thought - he functions perfectly adequately on his own and, as far as I saw it, would have cruised gently into accommodating Someone Else into his solitude if that was how things panned out. (In particular, that's why things with Maddy really could have worked out - it was such a slow burn anyway, emotionally-speaking, that when the inevitable happened it wouldn't have been a massive upheaval...)


Per the Doomfic / Carlagate, obviously some of this will have to wait until I re-watch series 4, but I was thinking maybe Joey could already have sent the first Meddling Email to Maddy, before suddenly remembering that there was a whole other era to the story to wade through. She can feign curiosity the next time she wheedles Jonathan when in actuality she's in a race against time / Maddy's inevitable wrath. :D

I think you've pretty much hit on exactly why I have issues with the whole Polly situation -- because it's NOT that kind of shared solitude that might actually have made some kind of sense in the context of Jonathan as a character.

It's the exact opposite -- somehow, this solitary savant who struggled in the company of normal humans has become this creature [of] social normality and media mingling and high-profile jobbing and all the things that for the entire duration of his adult life he struggled with. So Polly has not just taken away his heritage and his identity, she's actively forced him into the role that he always tried to avoid playing for Adam -- he was always the man behind the curtain and the ONE piece of constant continuity we had for him was that he hated being thrust in front of it. And if there's one thing Maddy and Adam and even Carla always understood, even in their most overbearing moments, it was that he DID NOT DO 'SOCIAL'.

The whole thing actually takes on new layers of upsetting the more I think about it, so I'm gonna stop ranting now...

(No, that is not the end of it...!)

Yeah. You'd think our initial reaction of DNW would have been adequate explanation, really. It's only when you start to analyse the fail in anatomical detail that it becomes even more faily. :(


[snip] ...It just did not occur to me until just now how screwed up it is that the one social recluse we had on TV who isn't named Sherlock had to go and get normalised under the pretence of 'growing up'. The Maddy Factor adds insult to injury because again, there's a character who actually played off him WELL, who was the exact opposite of what he was, but never once tried to change who he was or make him something else. And, like, if even Maddy -- who, let's face it, is not the most empathic soul in the universe -- can figure that out, can see and know and understand the fundamental crux of Who Jonathan Is, and still manage to keep him as part of her life without making everything that he is into something that needs changing... the only way it makes sense for him to end up with someone like Polly is if he had a major breakdown and/or crisis right before meeting her.

This is why I think there must be more back-story where Adam is concerned, too. At least the absence of the windmill, whilst awful, was actually explained in the episode; Adam was just... notably absent. The only possible thing I can think is that they parted on bad terms somehow. In a way that's plausible, because even up to "The Judas Tree" we never saw any kind of character development for Adam (and as I've said before, if anyone needed character development, it was him) - he just carried on being the same old egotistical manchild he'd always been. It makes sense that Jonathan would tire of that, and that their relationship / partnership would grow stale eventually, but at the same time, if Jonathan really did want to grow up and move on and become more than Adam's perpetual errand boy, and started making noises about it, Adam would actually see sense, realise what he'd been taking for granted and offer Jonathan whatever was necessary to make him reconsider.

I'm favouring the mid-life crisis theory because it's basically the only way I can even start to justify it, but it must have been borne out of several different elements: the irretrievable breakdown of his working relationship with Adam (for whatever reason), the realisation that he's still gallivanting around the country applying logic to impossible situations - and on that note, maybe that awful court hearing experience from TJT was more of a kick in the teeth for him than we thought - with Joey, who despite being very different is nonetheless a mini-Maddy, and the Maddy thing in general. As much as I go a bit FANDOM SMASH about that particular OTP, I think in this case it's justified: Renwick can try and draw a line under it in TCotST all he wants, but he was the one constantly dropping hints and mentions every bloody time. Just, either write her out, or don't - you can't have it both ways.

Apparently, I had no idea any of this was in my brain. [snip]

Yea, now you've mentioned it, I kind of do feel bad for Adam. For all his juvenile manchild-ness, I think his affection for Jonathan, and his respect, were very genuine, and I'd like to think, as you say, that if Jonathan ever really did get angry/upset/driven to the point of leaving, he'd step up and try to change. At the risk of bringing up the whole Sherlock thing again (I don't even like it, I swear!), he was always the grudging Watson to Adam's obnoxious Holmes -- the voice of reason, I mean, when Adam went off the rails -- and it is kind of sad that they seemingly parted without so much as a by-your-leave. If nothing else, THAT really really needs to be explained in greater detail during the episodes.

I do kind of like the mid-life crisis theory. I suppose even Jonathan is subject to that, and I guess buying a shiny red convertible would seem kind of anti-climactic to a dude who spent his life in a windmill and surrounded by impossible things. And I guess, if you're going down that route, the whole crux of a mid-life-crisis is the panic over coming to the end of your life without having done all the crazy things you thought were so cool as a kid... which, if you think about it from Jonathan's perspective, having lived a whole life of exactly that brand of crazy, maybe the whole concept of 'normal' has kind of taken on that air of 'things you'll never have'... y'know, possibly.

Also d'awwww at the notion of Joey as a mini-Maddy. If they'd got together when they were supposed to, they'd totally have a precious Joey-esque teenager by this point.......

...or, y'know, a precious teenage Harry. ;)

...followed by...

PRECOCIOUS. Not precious. As I typo'd TWICE. >.>

Exactly. Not being able to get hold of cast members is a minor point to overcome, when you consider series 1 where Adam was present but not actually seen again until series 2 / the recast. Though I suspect there is an element there, also, that Renwick had written Adam into a corner as much as Jonathan, simply by virtue of refusing to give him any kind of character development, and just didn't know where to go with him next. I'm hoping for an explanation as well, but I fear Adam will now become another member of the "They Who Must Not Be Named" club. :P

That makes sense, actually. You have to wonder how long his mother/parents kept trying to interfere in his life before giving up entirely, so maybe that was a factor - finally living the sort of life they'd always expected of him, once they'd stopped trying to foist it onto him.

LOL, "supposed to". As much as this re-watch has convinced me that Jonathan/Maddy was always Renwick's intention, to some degree anyway, I am absolutely certain he never approached it with any kind of conviction and it was a happy accident when Alan and Caroline proved to have chemistry. In one of the DVD extras it's mentioned that Alan only got cast after some high-up at the BBC saw the screentest and enjoyed the spark - I think if NOT for that, we would have even less to go on!

Hee, precious. Most appropriate typo ever. :D He's definitely a precious eight-year-old, but I guess that's what growing up in a windmill with Adam Klaus as a role model will do for you. :P

Yea, amen to the cast members thing, especially considering it's just for one episode. There's not a show exists that had to make do without one or another cast member for one or two episodes at a time, and a passing mention is more than enough to cover that base. There's no excuse for just writing out a whole character based on "we couldn't get the actor for this one". And I'm actually kind of hoping for an explanation for Adam almost more than Maddy -- at least we've had time to get used to the whole She Who Must Not Be Named paradigm, but the thought that Adam would end up tarred by the same brush is kind of hard to swallow. He better at least get mentioned by name, for pity's sake.

That's interesting, the thought of little!Jonathan having to resist the whole normalcy thing. Amusing, if nothing else, to picture him as something of a teenage rebel. Long hair and everything...

But yes, all the precocious precious offspring running rampant around the windmill! Or, y'know, not!windmill as the case may be. And honestly, now I'm picturing Jonathan explaining to Polly that he has a kid by Maddy, and Polly being unable to get over it because she'd just assumed he'd lived in a chaste bubble of monastical non-existence until she came along and overtook his life.

Actually, that teenage rebel thing sounds about right when you consider that conversation between Jonathan, Maddy and Sheena at the put at the start of "No Trace of Tracey" - where they liked Percy Sledge and he liked Edwin Drood. Maddy's reaction says a lot for the apparent popularity of that band even at the time. :D

I still really really want to re-write series 4 in the ALTAF universe - or possibly, as might be easier, write episode tags for series 4 in that universe instead. I'm still torn with the Doomfic whether or not to have Maddy drop the bombshell of having a 12-year-old back in the US, but I fear that way lies madness and unfinishable sequels. :P (Plus I think Jonathan has enough angst / emotional rollercoasters to go through already in that story.)

I've also just had the awful thought that if my headcanon is accurate and Joey WAS doing all that wheedling and meddling and trying to make things right... what if it didn't work out the way she'd hoped after all? What if after all that, it still went wrong and they parted on even worse terms? That would actually give "...Savant's Thumb" a terrifying amount of sensible backstory, and explain why Joey wasn't in contact with Jonathan for so long. I imagine he would forgive her eventually because he would see that she was only doing what she thought was best, but she would more than likely avoid him out of sheer embarrassment. :(

I mean, part of me just wants TJT to be the canon endpoint... but apparently my brain still wants closure on all the fail anyway. :(

NGL, the idea of Joey's meddling and wheedling going Horribly Wrong and leading to all the fail totally gave my heart palpitations. I kind of really want that to be the explanation, because as you say, it would give a kind of backstory that might make the whole thing substantially less faily and more ZOMGPAIN. That said, though, there remains the questionmark of why Jonathan didn't respond to her in a negative way when she showed up in his office during the episode; admittedly, I only watched it the one time, and was cussing through most of it so possibly missed stuff... but IIRC, the reunion was an amicable one? It's annoying on so many levels, that episode, because even when you do think of potentially rational explanations for things, there's always something out there to stop it making sense.

I was going to tweet to make sure you were alive after that, I admit. :P

I've only watched it once myself, though IIRC she turned up and thought she'd got the wrong place and in any event they wouldn't let her in, then she spotted his photo on the wall and managed to get inside anyway. When she was in his office reception called to warn him she might try and evade security. ;) But yeah... there is that. I can't quite remember how he reacted to her presence, TBH, but I seem to recall it was neither negative nor positive, just... quietly accepting. Which yeah, if it went wrong and he forgave her because her intentions were entirely sound and honest, and has had all these massive life-changing events going on in the meantime, I imagine he would greet that particular element of his not-so-distant past with a long-suffering acceptance.

And it might well explain why he'd apparently lost contact with Joey as well. It'd be one of those situations where they'd half-heartedly promise not to let the bad outcome come between their friendship, only for that to be exactly what happened. Combined with the fact that Joey would be so embarrassed about having misread the situation and wrongly predicted the outcome. :(

In fairness, I'm starting to suspect this episode is immune to logic. Part of me is convinced that David Renwick is silently brilliant and all of this really IS in the subtext - the midlife crisis, the Maddy thing, etc., etc. - and we're meant to figure it out for ourselves. But, as ever, another part of me is absolutely convinced it's just lazy, half-arsed writing in the pressure of meeting a deadline...


Now that you mention it, yea... knowing Jonathan (or at least the person Jonathan SHOULD BE, gdi), 'quietly resigned' would kind of make sense. It comes back to the whole 'gravitating towards overbearing women' thing; he's so used to that personality type, no matter the kind of break-up, there's a kind of inevitability when they come back to him. No doubt he's more than used to it after Maddy and Carla, and even after three years or whatever, would probably have been more surprised if Joey DIDN'T hunt him down eventually.

....now kind of wondering if maybe he was counting down the minutes till she showed up from the moment he heard murmurings about whatever the hell the case du jour was about.

And I'm kind of frustrated here, 'cause I'd like to think that with enough rewatchings I can rationalise away all the fail with BUT SEE THAT LOOK ON HIS FACE IN THAT MOMENT MEANS SOMETHING VERY OBVIOUS THAT MAKES THIS POD!JONATHAN MAKE PERFECT SENSE... but at the same time, I really really don't WANT to rewatch it, even once, because the fail is still just too freaking painful to put myself through all over again. Like, I want to give myself a chance in lieu of this tennis to go back and make it work... but that would involve, y'know, having to actually see it again, and DNW.


I seem to recall Joey said something that the case hadn't hit the papers yet and she only knew about it because of Random Farmer Boyfriend at the start, but nevertheless, yes, Jonathan was probably subconsciously expecting her to track him down nonetheless. I see him sort of quietly reading the newspaper whenever there's a big unexplained case going on in the news and figuring it out in his head - just because Polly has seemingly banned that from his life doesn't mean he'd stop doing it. :D

Yes, exactly. I kind of want to rewatch all the stuff with Joey because it was awesome, and just to see if there WERE any surrepticious Maddy!mentions I might have missed from being blinded by fail, but at the same time... I'm kind of so defeated by it that I don't want to. I basically feel like this is the only episode which won't improve with repeat viewings - even series 4 manages that because the actual mysteries are pretty good - both because it's godawful and because GODDAMMIT IT'S TOO PAINFUL.

Oh, right, I forgot about Random Farmer Boyfriend... shows how much attention I was paying, even then...

But yea, exactly. That's what kills me most of all, I think -- I've been in various fandoms for a long long time, and seen a whole mass of fail on pretty much every level, but this is probably the first time I've ever seen something so completely unjustifiably WRONG. Like, every single facet of that episode felt like a completely different show... and it's one thing to have a fail-y episode or two or butcher a character once or twice for plot reasons, but this feels like a complete reset of the whole show, like Renwick feels like HE'S grown out of it, and if the fanbase hasn't then they're clearly wrong, because LOOK EVEN JONATHAN GREW OUT OF IT ZOMG PEOPLE. -.-;;;;;

I can't help but feel that if Renwick had any concept of the fandom whatsoever, he might be somewhat more... sympathetic, or something. It's basically like this show is his brainchild and he struck lucky being able to give it screentime, but he's just so under-invested in what he created that he's lost interest. So yeah, what you said re: growing out of it. I imagine he'd be one of those awful writers / creators who, upon discovering that fandom existed, would decide to stomp on said fandom with a hobnail boot a la Ann Rice, rather than embracing the contribution a la Joss Whedon.

'Cause, you know, he's clearly very talented but that doesn't necessarily give him any more right to these characters when we so clearly care more about them than he ever has. :(

...and at that point the conversation sort of exhausted itself - understandably!

So, there you have it. All other Jonathan Creek fandom discussions and/or theories are hereby null and void. :P

Oh, whilst I'm here, as I haven't updated in ages - new job is going much better now. I'm pretty much always busy and too tired when I get home from work to actually update, but so far I'm really enjoying it. This is a strange, alien feeling after the last few months of hating every second of every day in Legal! I've also covered two cases at New Aston House in Newtown, which transpires not to be too bad to get to (45 minutes door to door because I can get the train halfway). So yeah.

The only odd thing is that - obviously - I've run into people I used to work with at Ladywood. Amanda is my acting manager, Tina H is still the Senior Admin Assistant for West&Central, and Cynthia still works as a Clerk... but so far we've all been dancing around Sandra-gate and the reason I left Children's Services in the first place... which is kind of weird, but also a relief. The only person I've spoken to about it properly has been Jenny, because she knew about it before she had anything to do with Child Protection, from knowing me personally. So yeah. I'm pretty sure both Amanda and Tina are fully aware of my history with Child Protection AND my reasons for leaving, and the silence has been mutual. Frankly, I'm not going to complain.

This is long enough already, so: over and out, for some indeterminate amount of time...
Tags: fandom: jonathan creek, ponderings, rants, reviews: television, shippiness
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